who can read these cancels?

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    • #98408
      red1999
      Participant

      one cancel reads OMSK, but i cant decide on the second word…
      the other is totally unkown to me

      any help is welcome

      stefan

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    • #102504
      Lacplesis
      Blocked

      The right one is OMSK-KADISHEVO, AKMOLINSK OBLAST

    • #102505
      Gary
      Blocked

      The one on the left is Kelerovo, Vladimir prov.

    • #102510
      igorfmyask
      Blocked

      I have check several Russian/English dictionaries including one issued in 1910. There are translation of Russian administrative units:

      Gubernia – Government
      Oblast – Region
      Uesd – District
      Volost – Volost

      I think we need to establish terminology.

    • #102511
      jlechtanski
      Participant

      I think it best to just use the Russian administrative names.

      We would also have to have translations for okrug, kray, etc.

      An otdelenie is and otdelenie –when you use a translation, you loose precision.

      How do you translate selo, sloboda, stanitsa, derevnya? — village, village, village, village?

    • #102513
      IvoSteijn
      Participant

      I’m a big fan of not translating too much. I’ve seen some terrible translations of “Ehkspeditsiya” for example, and it really is best to leave it untranslated.

    • #102514
      igorfmyask
      Blocked

      I also see problems with translation and I have no idea how to translate “hutor” or “zimovka” but using of translitteration instead translation will create problems for people who do not know Russian. By the way we translate into Russian “county” as “grafstvo” but who is “graf” (count)?

    • #102515
      Gary
      Blocked

      We also need to be sure the transliteration of the word is correct as well.

      As far as translations, I will stay with guberniya=province for now. Of course we can also ignore some possibilities as those provided by the authors and others below.

      Vinokurov & Epstein, Russian Field Post in 1914-1918: guberniya is province

      Kiryushkin & Robinson, Russian Postmarks an Introduction and Guide: guberniya is province

      Russian-English Dictionary, A. I. Smirnitsky, published Moscow in 1991 by Russian Language: guberniya is province

      Wikipedia, “Guberniya (Russian: ãóáeðíèÿ IPA: (also gubernia, guberniia, gubernya) was a major administrative subdivision of the Imperial Russia, usually translated as governorate or province.”

      Encyclopedia Britannica,
      “imperial Russia
      …and the Towns (1785). Essentially, the reforms divided the empire’s territory into provinces of roughly equal population; the division paid heed to military considerations. Each of these units (guberniya) was put under the supervision and responsibility of a governor or governor-general acting in the name of the ruler, with the right of direct communication with him.”

      Random House Unabridged Dictionary of 2006,
      “gu·ber·ni·ya [goo-ber-nee-uh; Russ. goo-byer-nyi-yuh] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
      –noun
      1. (in the Soviet Union) an administrative division of the volosts, smaller than a district.
      2. (in Russia before 1917) an administrative division equivalent to the province.

      These terms all appear to be “administrative” units established by politicians in an attempt to create boundaries within which control exists.

    • #102516
      jlechtanski
      Participant

      Unfortunately there are many transliteration systems in use.

    • #102517
      Gary
      Blocked

      Perhaps we could use the one listed on this site for entries in this Samovar? Whether anybody agrees that it is the best one is not the issue. Just a thought…

    • #102519
      red1999
      Participant

      thanks alot!

      vladimir ist east of moscow while omsk is south of the ural

      it would really be helpful to have a map of that time with all the cities, areas of that time… but it seems nothing is on the www

      stefan

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